Friday, January 11, 2019

Olympian Catalytic Heater Controversy

9:52 am:
When I began to live in MsTioga in 2003, I would go on the RV.net forum to answer questions about RVing. That was before levelers. Before RV internet connectivity. Before solar electricity.

None of these things were used by RVers in 2003. And RVers were hungry for info about these things. Info that I had from my use of these things.

In 2003 when I posted on the RV.net forum about how much I liked my Olympian Wave-6 Catalytic Heater, I was lambasted for being so foolish to use this heater inside MsTioga. Predictions of my death were made.


Now, I am being lambasted for using 3M VHB tape to secure my solar panels. This 3M product is a proven thing. There is no question that 3M VHB tape successfully secures solar panels when used correctly on RV roofs made of aluminum or fiberglass.

So why are Readers warning me about using this tape to secure my panels? Same thing, different year.


11:52 am:
I fixed up an omelet for breakfast. Ham and cheese. Cup of orange juice.

And with breakfast came Willie Nelson in concert!




3:10 pm:
My other solar panel is now up on the roof!

But the branch connectors that are needed will not arrive until January 18th. So, no additional solar power until then.


5:45 pm:
Three of the four cabinets that I bought from Home Depot are now inside Box Van.

Earlier this afternoon, I picked these cabinets up where they were being held for me at Home Depot-El Cajon.



Now I am in the process of installing one of these cabinets into Box Van's kitchen.

Pic showing the temporary shelf that I built for 
placing a cabinet at the correct height for installation.


.

44 comments:

  1. Apples and Oranges George. ALL advise is wrong because one piece of advise was wrong?
    Come on. The Scampi detachment is a better comparison. I dare Mr. Ed to give you approval on this disaster.
    P.S. what did the experts at the solar panel company say? Use tape? I think not.

    You could get a sign on the back of your Van that says " Not responsible for flying solar panels going through you windshield and killing you".

    ReplyDelete
    Replies


    1. Well am I going to endorse Double sided 3M sticky tape yes
      If you were making an RV siding with no rivets yes you were making a trailer with sheet metal or aluminum yes
      If you were making body panels With glue yes sticky tape no
      The first two applications are widely used in the RV/trucking and cargo trailer industry
      The glue is widely used in body panels from GM all the way up to Ford an tesla
      In the race car industry They are using sticky tape on some Body panels and Kevlar panels
      Now think of what I just said,,, each one of those strips are for the whole length of the sheet metal It has been proven that it is far superior and strength and durability then a rivet screws or bolts
      If Applied and used under the guidelines of 3M Procedure you will tear the metal before you tear the stick tape
      Am I going to endorse double-sided 3M sticky tape in Mr. G’s case no
      Here’s my reasoning
      Referring to the 200 W solar panel
      Each one of the hold down points is probably equivalent to about 4 1/2 in.² x 4
      That 19 in.² or less that needs to hold a panel it’s probably 30+-pounds On a roof that flexes
      And has unknown wind speed underneath it
      So am I going to tell Mr. G how to secure his panels NO
      What is interesting is,,, he has never posted that he’s done a pull test on it
      Phil B
      I love that last part of your comment,,,Even if I did have to clean the coffee off my screen

      Delete
    2. Phil,

      You seem to be using my Scampy trailer coming loose as a reason for my not being qualified to make decisions? Is this what you think?

      Do you actually know why Scampy got loose?

      George

      .

      Delete
  2. George,
    IMO, the 3M VHB tape will work fine to secure your panels provided the surfaces are prepped properly and enough tape is used. Poorly prepared surfaces and skimping on the tape...well, maybe not so good of a result. Good luck!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Truth,

      I prepare the mating surfaces for 3M VHB tape using isopropyl alcohol.

      I cover the steel angle bracket with the tape.

      George

      .

      Delete
  3. But the guy on the internet said it was O.K.:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=heFCCiIgmqs

    ReplyDelete
  4. "There is no question that 3M VHB tape successfully secures solar panels when used correctly on RV roofs made of aluminum or fiberglass".

    Who made that up?

    ReplyDelete
  5. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/vhb-tapes-us/. I think the key statement is weather resistant not weather proof, so over time the bond could fail. I think you said that you put screws in the corners to help with securing the panels. If so, then you should be ok. I would check them routinely

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Paul,

      Perhaps you missed the following on the 3M website that you reference:

      "Designed for a smooth side and a durable ride, 3M™ VHB™ Tapes withstand the extreme heat and cold, vibration, moisture and UV light specialty vehicles encounter on the open road. Unlike rivets and screws, they provide a barrier sealed against any kind of weather."

      George

      .

      Delete
  6. George

    My post never said tape is just a bad idea, but that the small contact area of the tape at just the mounting tabs could be problematic. If you can increase the contact surface area and ensure it is meticulously cleaned and sealed, I think you'll be OK. What I saw in the picture seemed inadequate and is what concerned me.

    Joe

    ReplyDelete
  7. I’ve used 3m tape for two years without any issues. In the future, who knows?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Someone,

      Thank you for your comment.

      You are a voice of reason in this controversy!

      George

      .

      Delete
  8. Everyone is aware that there are very many types of VHB tape with different widths and bonding properties, right? A blanket statement like "..3M VHB tape successfully secures solar panels when used correctly on RV roofs.." is without dimension and consequently is vague and can't be substantiated as written.

    My 2 cents.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Joe,

      It appears to me that the part of your comment where you write the following is not accurate:
      "Everyone is aware that there are very many types of VHB tape....."

      From the comments I deduce that many of them are not knowledgeable about 3M VHB tape.

      George

      .

      Delete
  9. Hi George,
    if that tape can withstand highway speeds holding down a wind resistant panel that would make it hurricane proof. maybe the home builders should start taping roofs instead of nailing them so they can withstand hurricane storms. I think you're taking a risk with the safety of the motoring public around you . you should reconsider this idea . not sure why you're so opposed to installing the panels thru bolted anyway. ????

    Ray
    Annapolis Md U.S.A

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Ray let me answer that question
      Here in Florida Some of the high-end builders are now using a material that is similar to liquid nail on the roofs Between the rafter and the plywood however there still using nails at 140 mph wind factor Spacing
      The next time you go and look at a car door of the door piller you’ll see what looks like putty It’s similar to that

      Delete
  10. Good grief - we were using levelers & satellite internet in 2003. Didn't need a Catalytic Heater as we had heat pump & gas furnace. I can't imagine having ANYTHING installed on an RV roof with just tape, no matter what kind.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous,

      You are flat wrong about levelers and internet in 2003.

      I used a scissors jack that was poorly designed but the ONLY leveler available in 2003.

      Why don't you backup your internet statement with facts about the internet service that you used in 2003?

      George

      PS: Register yourself with Google. I usually do NOT allow anonymous comments!


      .

      Delete
  11. I use 3M VHB tape to secure a cell phone holder to my truck dash. Here in Florida it always fails after 60 days or so because of high interior heat. Personally I might use the tape in your situation but I'd also use mechanical fasteners. If the panels come loose the results could be deadly. Good luck George.

    ReplyDelete
  12. Clearly nobody commenting followed the link to the 3M site. George is using the tape as designed — including weather, vibration, wind, and so on.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Anonymous

      would you answer me a question... why would anybody stick 3M on a piece of wood to metal floor ?

      Delete
  13. Amsolar has probablly installed more solar panels than all the combined experts here together. And they have used tape since the 90's.

    https://amsolar.com/diy-rv-solar-instructions/edmounts/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. GMF
      You’re absolutely right let me repost part of that article

      Fiberglass roofs – We have been using a type of 3M double-sided tape on our mounts since the mid 1990’s, and we have never lost a panel. As long as the tape is properly installed on a clean surface at the correct temperature, it will hold. As an added level of protection, we use a layer of Dicor self-leveling sealant around the entire perimeter of the mount, and cover the screw holes/heads as well. The sealant protects the tape and any potential roof penetrations from water intrusion and decay.

      Rubber Roofs – Along with the 3M double-sided tape, we also include stainless steel ¾” sheet metal screws in the Rocker Foot Mount Set. While the 3M tape will hold to your rubber roof, your rubber roof may not stay attached to the plywood it is bonded to. The sheet metal screws will penetrate through the rubber, into the plywood, to keep your rubber roof from separating while the wind force of highway speed driving pulls at your panels. Again, we bury the entire mounting feet with Dicor self-leveling sealant for weather resistance. Some customers use the screws for an added layer of protection on fiberglass roofs, but we haven’t found that to be necessary.


      If they find it that good why did they need to put the decor on there or add screws,,,, please ?

      Delete
  14. Do you remember growing up,,,no not that kind
    When they told you don’t eat bacon don’t eat eggs Real butter Whole non-pasteurized milk tuna don’t run around the house with scissors don’t point the BB gun at somebody because you’re put their eye out don’t speed cross only on the crosswalk with the light
    I think most of those people are dead now,,, don’t you think

    ReplyDelete
  15. Why risk hurting someone if not killing them? Screw those suckers down for EVERYONE'S sake. Risking peoples LIVES to prove a point isn't smart...

    ReplyDelete
  16. How many people have been killed by a flying solar panel, a/c roof unit or any other rv object? I doubt very many if any at all compared to people who drive around with stuff in the back of their truck or on their SUV roof that goes flying down the freeway. Maybe someone has the statistic.

    ReplyDelete
  17. I used to follow RV net. I read it once in awhile but it seems that 90% of the people are sanctimonious clown. There are a few moderators that make people not want to read or use RV.Net and or Camping World. Also Camping World lost a customer because of the moderators attitude.

    ReplyDelete
  18. Too bad George did not know about this great double sticky tape about ten years ago when his solar panels blew off Mrs. Tioga and landed on the side of the road. Those screws holding those panels back then must have been made in China :-)
    I have some of the tape, I have used it, I have tested it, I would not trust it to hang a picture on the wall let alone something out in the eliments!
    Very foolish in my opinion.
    Have a nice day!

    ReplyDelete
  19. George. We bought our motorhome in 2001 with electronic levelers and satellite dish. Available then but maybe at a cost.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bev,

      Satellite dish for TV. NOT internet.

      Electronic leveling jacks in 2001? Who manufactured your leveling jacks?

      George

      .

      Delete
  20. Stand back
    In defense of George losing his solar panels I don’t believe it was American made :) or Chinese :( made screws
    I believe it had a lot to do with decor (none)
    If you get a chance read the article from GMF s post
    And very carefully scrutinize the pictures

    ReplyDelete
  21. I just realized why "Older People" are sent Retirement Communities..... so they don't endanger the rest of us!

    ReplyDelete
  22. Obviously these naysayers have never installed solar panels or they wouldn't be talking like they know something. You go George!!! When trying to remove them later they will separate the fiberglass before the tape lets loose.

    John

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. They come off if you use a diamond wire saw

      Delete
  23. Ooops. I meant to say that we used Verizon in 2003.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Bev,

      What service did you get from Verizon?

      George

      .

      Delete
  24. AM Solar in Oregon installed my three solar panels on my roof in 2014 using VHB tape and dicor. I check them every time I go on the roof to clean the panels, and the mounts appear sound, five years and 50,000 miles later.

    ReplyDelete
  25. Hi, George. Results of a quick google search:
    HWH Corp. makes hydraulic levelers. Their logo says. "Since 1967." The first page of their brochure reads, "Improving your RV experience since 1967."
    https://www.hwhcorp.com/ml35809.pdf
    The writer of this History of Satellite Internet says, "We got our first satellite system (Hughesnet) in January 2002."
    https://www.mobileinternetsatellite.com/blogs/category/history/

    ReplyDelete
  26. TakeToTheHighway:

    As I alluded in a previous comment, sealing the edges of the tape with something like Dicor is major. What most likely will cause loss of the bond is water and dust migrating under the adhesive and destroying it ittle by little. I'd still like to see more surface area though; those little 1.5" pads would scare the bejeezes out of me. Doubling tape contact surface width & length would quadruple the adhesive bond.

    ReplyDelete
  27. https://amsolar.com/rv-mounting-accessories/mounttl-3

    Link to s picture to one of the mounts they sell. Notice the tape on it as sold

    ReplyDelete

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